Joe Grundy

Joined

• started 102 topics
• posted 1,216 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Joe Grundy

• 
  191

  If god exists...

  by dazed but not confused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].

  [if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman";} </style> <![endif].

  if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Tammy:

  With respect, I think you're dodging the issue a bit here.

  You were born in the west, with a general concept of the modern western god. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia, for example, you would almost certainly have been raised in one of the islamic religions with a concept of allah and your view of Jesus would have been shaped by that - i.e. he was an honourable prophet but his message was superceded by the 'revelations' to Mohammed. To deny that could mean death.

  Had you been born in Thailand, for example, you would be following the tenets of the buddha (and other gods) and would probably smile and acknowledge Jesus as one more source of teaching/thinking to be considered. And so the examples could continue.

  It would, I think, be a fascinating (but impossible) exercise if one could start with a blank sheet, free of all influences, and truly make a comparative study of all of the religions (and religious influences) which have abounded since homo sapiens started thinking about these things.
• 
  191

  If god exists...

  by dazed but not confused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].

  [if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman";} </style> <![endif].

  if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  PS: and in the case of the newer religions, e.g. JWs and Mormons, he left it another 2,000 years before communicating the later, truer, stuff.
• 
  191

  If god exists...

  by dazed but not confused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].

  [if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman";} </style> <![endif].

  if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Hitchens and others make a good point which I have never seen effectively refuted. It's this:

  Homo Sapiens as a species have been around for at least 100,000 years (probably a lot more). For most of that time they lived in very difficult conditions - low life expectancy, high infant mortality, etc., and in fear of things they didn't understand such as earthquakes, volanoes, tsunami, and so on.

  To be a christian you have to believe that for the first 98,000 years or so a caring and all-powerful god watched all this with arms folded. Then he decided to intervene in his creation and decided to do so to a largely illiterate people in a backwater (Palestine) rather than in a relatively advanced civilisation (e.g. China). His chosen method was human sacrifice - an advanced form of 'scapegoating'.

  This rather suggests that god was uncaring, or not omniscient, or not all-powerful, or capricious.
• 
  14

  Saw this - It made me laugh, I hope no one is offended!

  by cantleave in

  1. social
  2. humour

  actually i don't care if they are.....enjoy.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  PS: On the issue of 'offence' - I am a firm believer in the principles of free speech and of religious freedom (which includes freedom from religion).

  I don't take offence when the religious tell me I am an infidel, a sinner, morally bankrupt, deserve to die, burn in hell, and that sort of stuff. In return I reserve the right to question, comment on and make jokes about their beliefs.

  In the vernacular: 'Don't dish it out if you can't take it'.
• 
  14

  Saw this - It made me laugh, I hope no one is offended!

  by cantleave in

  1. social
  2. humour

  actually i don't care if they are.....enjoy.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  I enjoyed the cartoon!

  The comments above made me think (again) how christian religions and their derivatives are somehow instinctively thought of as 'western' or 'European' by so many people. Judaism and christianity are Asian religions by origin (western Asian, yes, but Asian all the same). I remember portrayals of Jesus as being light-skinned, blond-haired and blue-eyed (and speaking English, of course!).

  I lived in Cyprus for several years. Eastern Med/western Asia. Indigenous Cypriots - in so far as any peoples are truly indigenous - are swarthy-skinned, dark-haired, dark-eyed. It's only about 100 miles from Israel/Lebanon and about the same from Egypt (Africa). Most peple would be hard-pressed to tell them apart.

  Many Cypriots went to South Africa. I often wondered, but never asked, how they were regarded - or classified - during the (religiously-supported) apartheid years.

  My understanding is that the 'early Christians' migrated in all directions - to Africa, east deeper into Asia, north to Turkey, and as far as the Indian sub-continent, as well as Europe, and there are established churches in all off those places. Strange in a way that some western new religions (I'm thinking of JWs and Mormons here as examples) while claiming 'special revelations' seem to have based themselves on the Roman church and it's derivatives.
• 
  16

  Wife's FS report for last month... Zero!

  by Captain Obvious in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i could just be reading too far into this but... even with plenty of opportunities and time to go, she didn't seem to make it out last month.

  last night she said she was gonna go out today (the 1st) but... she's downstairs at the moment sipping coffee watching tv.

  a few weeks ago on the long drive back from the assembly we talked about fs.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  "Noah didn't make many converts either. Does that mean that his preaching was a waste of time? No, because preaching serves a dual purpose.

  It also serves as a warning that Jehovah is soon going to intervene in the affairs of mankind, and those who are not prepared for it will probably not survive it"

  Well, that's one view. In my (no doubt) cynical view it serves as a tool for the WT organisation to keep 'the faithful' busy and occupied, 'up with the program' so they don't stop to think, and don't dare to challenge.

  Just my opinion, you understand, I may be wrong.
• 
  23

  The Teaching of Evolution in UK Schools Mandatory

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  link to news story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20547195 (sorry, don't know how to make it 'clickable').. i, for one, am glad to see that this has been clarified.

  is it the same in the us?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  NC:

  Thanks for that, though it made me sad.

  In some ways, the US is held up as one of the few states (countries) in which religion is held at bay because of its constitution. It doesn't actually seem to work out too well. Can you imagine a presidential candidate who was a declared atheist? No, nor me. One day, may be ...
• 
  23

  The Teaching of Evolution in UK Schools Mandatory

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  link to news story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20547195 (sorry, don't know how to make it 'clickable').. i, for one, am glad to see that this has been clarified.

  is it the same in the us?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Thanks James - this is what I don't understand. Given that education is a government-mandated requirement federal or state), how can it incorporate religious beliefs?
• 
  46

  Here's a cute joke...

  by ohiocowboy in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i thought that this was cute so i wanted to share.... .

  a stalk of broccoli says "i look like a small tree"!.

  a mushroom looks around and says "i look like an umbrella"!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  This is an Aussie joke, and I'm not an Aussie ...

  Sheila: 'Bruce, I'm pregnant, and if you don't marry me I'm going to throw myself off the Sydney Harbour Bridge'

  Bruce: 'Jeez, Sheila, I knew you were a good lay but I didn't realise you were such a good sport'.
• 
  16

  Wife's FS report for last month... Zero!

  by Captain Obvious in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i could just be reading too far into this but... even with plenty of opportunities and time to go, she didn't seem to make it out last month.

  last night she said she was gonna go out today (the 1st) but... she's downstairs at the moment sipping coffee watching tv.

  a few weeks ago on the long drive back from the assembly we talked about fs.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  "Hey Joe, If the WTS says you will be happy, you will be happy. If not, it is because you have a bad attitude and lack faith."

  Blondie, I've picked this up from so many posts here on JWN over the years and, TBH, it makes me so sad for all the wasted hours, years and lives. At least when I was a cop and trudging round doors I was getting paid for it and we had a purpose in mind!

  My last encounter with a dub in FS was with a bright young college-age guy with a younger lad in tow. He explained to me how carbon dating was wrong, Adam was created c.6,500 years ago, and so on. I didn't argue except to suggest he do some research. He was obviously 'lacking in joy' and I'm not surprised, poor guy. I just didn't have the heart to beat him down further than I think he already was. I came away from the encounter thinking even more 'this is a sad and evil cult' which is not, of course, supposed to be the outcome of FS.